The Mavs-Lakers, Luka-AD trade: My short take

First, here's the trade basics, from Red Satan.

At that site, not too long after the trade, Windy was wondering why the Mavs didn't get either a second first-round draft choice, or another player, like Hillbilly Heroine Austin Reeves? Good question on the former. On the latter? Windy's own employer reported that the Jazz had to be looped in as a third team precisely because of salary cap issues.

Then there's the Dum Fuq casuals on Shitter who blamed Mark Cuban when he sold majority ownership of the Mavs nine months ago.

I don't think it's all bad on the Mavs side, despite The Ringer's caveats that the Mavs were A. Built around Luka and B. Actually better on team defense, memes aside, when he was on the floor.

And, we'll get to the B. in a minute.

First, this may indeed have been a steal for the Lakers. Given Luka's age vs AD's, it's a crime that Nico Harrison didn't get more draft capital. Yeah, even if you were that soured on Luka (and was Jason Kidd also that soured?), you still should have gotten more.

Update, Feb. 7: That draft capital went to Charlotte, which got Dalton Knecht (AND Cam Reddish as a bag of chips) AND that 2031 first-rounder that Nico couldn't, for middling center Mark Williams. No, really, that's the trade, even as Shams oversold the hell out of Williams on Shitter. Williams can't be a rising star yet when he's missed about half his eligible games in his 2.5 years due to injury.)

Update, Feb. 10: Related to the above? Pelinka specifically targeted Williams to please Doncic. Hey, Rob, Nico told you how that went in Dallas. Have fun!

That said, from the point of view of Harrison — and from the son-in-law of new owner Miriam Adelson, who is now the team's governor, The Ringer also notes this puts the Mavs below the salary cap first tier. Bobby Marks confirms. Mavs fans, keep that in mind.

Now, the B. side? Another Ringer piece notes Luke hasn't played 70-plus games since his rookie year. And, the ESPN top link notes he was in his 260s! earlier this year. At the same time, Michael Pina notes that AD has his own injury history.

If there's anybody in the NBA who can talk Luka into a better conditioning mindset, it's LeBron. Maybe he'll use any anger Luka has over the trade. OTOH, Luka's anger is often of a pouting sort. We've seen him not play D after arguing with refs.

If he won't show up in better conditioning next year? The Lakers may have traded for a more creatively passing but ground-bound version of Zion Williamson.

Meanwhile, Harrison has made the Mavs hostage to Kyrie Irving. As everybody and their uncle has noted, the current team is built around Luka. You can sort of get Kyrie to do much of the same, though he's not a Luka-type rebounder or other things, by making him into the first banana. That said, we know what's happened at other teams when Kyrie is the first banana. Maybe he's truly — and completely — turned over another leaf.

But, Mavs fans, would you bet your life on that? 

That said, Rob Pelinka is betting on something, too. That's that LeBron opts in on his contract next year. What if he doesn't, and not just to extract more from the Lakers? What if he wants to leave? Back to the Cavs, if they don't get the ring this year, to try to help them over the top and retire there? Who knows? Gnarls Barkley offered up the Warriors as his first option, which I doubt, and the Spurs as No. 2. THAT would be interesting.

==

In a follow-up, Harrison mentioned "Mavs culture" as a reason for the move. Stephen A and Shannon discuss this. He also mentioned a mix of salary cap and questions about re-signing Doncic, which indicates he thought some wells were already poisoned. He said the team had its heart set on AD, so not looking elsewhere. And, despite the look on Jason's Kidd's face at the initial presser that had some mix of shock and disgust, he said Kidd supported it. Well, if nothing else, Nico, given that you sign Kidd's paychecks, did he have a choice of saying much else?

Re the supermax, for which he's not eligible now? Doncic is not worth $70M a year.

Red Satan has a new piece on how this all went down. It follows up on "Mavs culture" by saying Harrison, who once was basically an assistant agent for Kobe Bryant, didn't see Kobe's work ethic, or close to it, in Luka. And, it explains that Harrison wanted radio silence to keep Luka's agent from meddling. THAT I can't blame. And, in a short video, Jay Williams said that NBA owners want more of this — eyeing NFL owners and GMs.

The shit has hit the fan with the Dallas Mavericks

And, to be honest? The future there is more likely to be fugly than beautiful, IMO, with Rick Carlisle joining Donnie Nelson out the door.

Old NBA fans will remember the old nickname for the team: the MavWrecks. We could be back there, as the shadow of owner Mark Cuban's consigliere, fixer, omerta-whistler, etc. Haralabos Voulgaris, looms in the background.

The implosion has taken all of four days.

To refresh our memory? 

Per the Athletic, and a Dallas Snooze story with the Cuban Sandwich's denial reaction, his analytics guy Bob Voulgaris, a former professional gambler, had pissed franchise player Luka Doncic over the past year and also head coach Rick Carlisle.

 

Now, I had blogged on Monday about how Doncic's dislike of Carlisle was coming out, and how Cuban probably needed to replace him. As for Cuban's rejection of that, I noted the Atlanta Hawks midseason hiring of Nate McMillan. I then tied in that information before doing an update yesterday on where the team stood. That included the Voulgaris meddling.

CBS had a piece with more quotes from the Athletic than the Snooze does. This is the nutgraf:

Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.

So, even beyond his analytics work? Why does he have Bob Voulgaris oing this? Payback? Blackmail?

 

Little did I know then that Carlisle might only be No. 2 on the list of people Cuban needed to fire. Little did I know that Carlisle would NOT be No. 1 on Bob Voulgaris' list of people to fire.

Because next, out, but not by choice? Cuban, at the clear prompting of Voulgaris, shit-canned Donnie Nelson yesterday as Mavs GM. And, per the piece, it's clear that Marky Mark was lying his ass off with his denials of the Athletic piece. Since that piece is behind a paywall, I've not read it, but I wonder if Battlin Bob and the Cuban Sandwich suspected Donnie of talking on background to the website. Or maybe, with his resignation, they thought Carlisle was leaking.

 

And now, today? Carlisle found out he has balls and has resigned. Yes, Carlisle found his balls and went Johnny Paycheck!

 

Meanwhile, the Mavs will likely enter this year's draft without having hired a GM to replace Nelson. Bob Forde's Sportsology is working on a search, but it will take time. Shane Battier is among possibilities but would he leave the Heat? Contra "The Smoking Cuban" at Fansided, no fucking way Danny Ainge is coming to Dallas. Nor is Masai Ujiri. Michael Finley as an in-house promotion is most likely, especially if seen as "controllable" by Voulgaris. And, that means Bob Voulgaris to further fuck things up for Luka's future.

Aside from Jalen Brunson, solid and serviceable at his slot, the Mavs have basically sucked about as much over the last couple of years as before.

Then, there's the matter of free agency.

Most names on this free agent list likely aren't happening. And, that sets aside fans wondering how well Cuban and Donnie Nelson are as free agent whisperers. (Frankly, they still strike me as being used as rich stalking horses by agents and little more.) It also now raises issues of how much Voulgaris is involved with that. And, for that matter, how does this affect their resigning of their own free agents? Tim Hardaway Jr. is the biggie, of course. Josh Richardson will almost certainly opt in on his option and Boban Marjanović ain't going anywhere.

Or with trade recommendations. As in the not-so-unicornish Kristaps Porzingis. And, yes, he put his imprimatur on that one, too.

 

And then, there's the new hot plate matter of a replacement for Carlisle. This has to be someone Luka wants, not just someone Bob Voulgaris wants.

Ever since Magic Johnson got Paul Westhead fired, a year-plus removed from an NBA title, different storye. Especially on free agency. LeBron James wouldn't have finalized The Decision to be Miami if Pat Riley ain't there. The best coaches and GMs know that, too. And, the best players know they know that.

Back to the Mavs.

I previously said, why not look at Jason Kidd? But, the question to be asked now, is would a Jason Kidd look at the MavWrecks? And, if Finley is the GM, would they co-exist as two fellow ex-Mavs players? Would other NBA coaches, like Terry Stotts or even retread Stan Van Gundy, want it?

 

Assistant Jamahl Mosley has already been touted by Woj as well as gotten Luka's seal of approval, anyway. Seems like he has the inside track.  

 

Update, June 24: Carlisle has returned to the Pacers, and said he thinks the Mavs should hire Kidd. Details here.

And NO, Dum Fuqs out there, Dirk Nowitzki is NOT going to be a temporary head coach OR a permanent one. Any Mavs fans dumb enough to believe that Dirk is walking in some door to rescue the team deserve the owner you have, and his Kenny Rogers sidekick. And, no, Dirk's "special consultancy" in GM and coach searches isn't a rescue, unless you're counting the Cuban Sandwich's hopes that this will rescue his self-induced PR clusterfuck.

This all said? A diabolical sidebar. What if Cuban didn't want to fire Carlisle but some part of him "accepted" he'd leave after Donnie Nelson got fired, since Carlisle said he and the Sandwich had been talking back and forth for a week?

Know when to fold 'em, Cuban: Fire Voulgaris, replace Carlisle

On Monday, I blogged about how I thought Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, to maximize the potential of Luka Doncic and keep him happy, probably needed to fire head coach Rick Carlisle.

Little did I know then that Carlisle might only be No. 2 on the list of people Cuban needed to fire.

Per the Athletic, and a Dallas Snooze story with the Cuban Sandwich's denial reaction, his analytics guy Haralabos Voulgaris, a former professional gambler, has pissed off Luka over the past year at least as much, and likely far more, than Carlisle, and maybe pissed off Carlisle as well.

Update, later today: Out, but not by choice? Cuban, at the clear prompting of Voulgaris, shit-canned Donnie Nelson. And, per the piece, it's clear that Marky Mark was lying his ass off with his denials of the Athletic piece. Since that piece is behind a paywall, I've not read it, but I wonder if Battlin Bob and the Cuban Sandwich suspected Donnie of talking on background to the website.

 

Update, June 17: Carlisle found out he has balls and has resigned. Yes, Carlisle found his balls and went Johnny Paycheck!

 

(From previous posts, there's signs the "Franchise" has friction, and probably increasing friction, with Carlisle. This Red Satan piece by Tim MacMahon, formerly of the Dallas Snooze and knowing the Mavs, has details.)

 

First, why does Cuban have a former pro gambler in this role? Surely he could have hired someone both better, and with less of an "optics" problem, than Voulgaris. (Well, maybe the NBA doesn't have a problem; see below.) I mean, Cuban was touted nearly a decade ago for being the polar opposite of Phil Jackson and being at the front of the analytics movement. Why does he have Bob Voulgaris doing this? Payback? Blackmail?

Second, on surrounding the franchise with a better supporting cast, supposedly, Voulgaris has been a draft whisperer to both Cuban and Donnie Nelson. Wunderbar. And more. Much more.

CBS has a piece with more quotes from the Athletic than the Snooze does. This is the nutgraf:

Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.

So, even beyond his analytics work? Why does he have Bob Voulgaris, a dweeb with that nerdy Twitter profile pic, doing this? Payback? Blackmail?

Aside from Jalen Brunson, solid and serviceable at his slot, the Mavs have basically sucked about as much over the last couple of years as before.

But, back to point 1. Surely someone in those "multiple league sources" is close enough to Adam Silver that Silver knows the background on Voulgaris and to me, THAT doesn't look good.

Then, there's the matter of free agency.

Most names on this free agent list likely aren't happening. And, that sets aside fans wondering how well Cuban and Donnie Nelson are as free agent whisperers. (Frankly, they still strike me as being used as rich stalking horses by agents and little more.) It also now raises issues of how much Voulgaris is involved with that.

Or with trade recommendations. As in the not-so-unicornish Kristaps Porzingis. And, yes, he put his imprimatur on that one, too.

 

For the man who has said he'd put Luka ahead of his wife, putting not one but two rectal irritants in front of Luka is puzzling indeed. 

 

Maybe it's cheapness, in that a bigger-name new coach might want more money. Ditto for a better, and less tainted, analyitics guy than Voulgaris.

 

Now, Luka's already said he'll sign the full-level extension he's entitled to.

 

BUT —

 

This is a players' league, more than the NFL or MLB. Tom Brady is the rare player who moves on, on his own, and that was only because he insisted that the Patriots couldn't franchise-tag him as part of his last contract pre-Tampa. And, even then, he couldn't get Belichick fired. NO player does that by himself in the NFL.

The NBA? Ever since Magic Johnson got Paul Westhead fired, a year-plus removed from an NBA title, different storye. Especially on free agency. LeBron James wouldn't have finalized The Decision to be Miami if Pat Riley ain't there. The best coaches and GMs know that, too. And, the best players know they know that.

Back to the Mavs.

I said above that the team seems to me to have been used as a stalking horse for leverage by potential free agents. You know, like Albert Pujols allegedly did to the Marlins long ago.

The idea that they'd be taken seriously when they employ TWO people that piss off the franchise? Laughable.

I had suggested, among B-tier free agents, a Will Barton or Paul Millsap since a full season of Aaron Gordon with the Nuggets means one or both of them are expendable. (Barton has a player option.) But would either of them consider the Mavs their first option?

In addition, ESPN points out what many Mavs fans know. His injury history has cut his mobility and

As for coaching?

Beside pissing off Luka, is Rick Carlisle, 2011 ring aside, is the best man to be leading the Mavs in the future. Let's ask it more.

At ESPN, Bobby Marks was handing out receipts on Twitter:

Dallas have been to the playoffs 9 times with Rick Carlisle as Head Coach.

They have lost in the 1st. rd. 7 times.

6 first rd. exits in a row since winning a championship in 2011.

— Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42) June 6, 2021

That's why people like me are questioning.

Sadly, the Cuban sandwich has already said "he stays."

 

And, he's wrong. The Hawks, dead in the water a few months ago, replaced Lloyd Pierce with Nate McMillan midseason — and they're not only in the playoffs, they're still playing.

Again, why not look at Jason Kidd?

 

Plenty of Mavs ties. Skill set that might bring new things out of Luka. Could do worse, like staying with Carlisle. 

 

I know luck is a large part of why he's a billionaire, but it amazes me how much stagnancy Cuban allows with his team. It IS a business, after all, and the business is winning. 

One final question, a rhetorical one. Actually, no, it's two.

IF the Athletic story is true:

1. Carlisle, have your balls shriveled so much that you actually put up with Bob Voulgaris essentially being your super-head-coach?

2. Cuban, if Carlisle's balls HAVE shriveled that much, why would you want him?

More on the idea of the Mavericks replacing Rick Carlisle

Despite a great effort by Luka Doncic in Game 7, the Dallas Mavericks lost Game 7 to the Clippers and have another first-round playoff exit.

So, what's needed to upgrade?

To go beyond my original post about this, of a week ago? Probably head coach Rick Carlisle.

First, there's signs that the "Franchise" has friction, and probably increasing friction, with Carlisle. This Red Satan piece by Tim MacMahon, formerly of the Dallas Snooze and knowing the Mavs, has details.

First, part two? This is a players' league, more than the NFL or MLB. Aaron Rodgers, no matter how much he wants out of Green Bay and no matter how much he thinks Matt LeFleur made a dumb play call in last year's playoffs, isn't getting management to can his coach. Or his GM. In baseball, yeah, the Rockies GM resigned, but that was six months after trading Nolan Arenado. And Bud Black is still there in the dugout, whether or not he bears any blame for the Rockies slump last year, or 2019.

The NBA? Ever since Magic Johnson got Paul Westhead fired, a year-plus removed from an NBA title, different story to some degree. Especially on free agency. LeBron James wouldn't have finalized The Decision to be Miami if Pat Riley ain't there. That's of course the Riles who replaced Westhead in Westwood.

Back to the Mavs.

First, while Kristaps Porzingis is a fine 2A player, would he a be a full No. 2 on an elite team? Probably not, and that's putting it mildly. He's NOT "The Unicorn." To put it another way, when your coach is praising your "floor spacing," that's a tell. 

In addition, ESPN points out what many Mavs fans know. His injury history has cut his mobility and made him a liability on D.

Tim Hardaway Jr.? A probable keeper, and per many Mavs fans, the actual better piece of the Zinger trade.

But, no real No. 2.

Can you get a more well rounded additional No. 3 in the free agent market?

Like a Will Barton? Or Paul Millsap? A full season of Aaron Gordon with the Nuggets means one or both of them are expendable. (Barton has a player option.)

Now, does Luka plus three or more No. 3 options, BY ITSELF, put this team over at least the first-round top, and preferably, at least a real chance of getting over the conference semis top?

I doubt it.

Most other names on this free agent list likely aren't happening. And, that sets aside fans wondering how well Cuban and Donnie Nelson are as free agent whisperers. (Frankly, they still strike me as being used as rich stalking horses by agents and little more.) 

It also sets aside whether or not Rick Carlisle, 2011 ring aside, is the best man to be leading the Mavs in the future. Let's ask it more.

At ESPN, Bobby Marks was handing out receipts on Twitter:

Dallas have been to the playoffs 9 times with Rick Carlisle as Head Coach.

They have lost in the 1st. rd. 7 times.

6 first rd. exits in a row since winning a championship in 2011.

— Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42) June 6, 2021

That's why people like me are questioning.

Sadly, the Cuban sandwich has already said "he stays."

 

And, he's wrong. The Hawks, dead in the water a few months ago, replaced Lloyd Pierce with Nate McMillan midseason — and they're not only in the playoffs, they're still playing.

Or, here's another name, a gent who knows the Mavs, is still semi-friendly with Cuban at least, and who removed himself from TrailBlazers consideration so as not to appear the pet (or a possible tampering investigation focus) of Damian Lillard.

I'm talking Jason Kidd, of course.

IMO, as far as who is realistically on the market, if Cuban swallowed his pride, he's the best realistic option. He WOULD be a change. And, he might get even more out of Luka that Carlisle probably never will. Kidd himself wasn't fast, but he was sneaky fast and had his own change of pace skills.

Donnie Nelson? Not great as a GM, but, in many ways, we know who the real GM is. And, contra the header, he's not selling.

 

==

 

Update: Per the Athletic, and a Dallas Snooze story with the Cuban Sandwich's reaction, why does Cuban have a former pro gambler as his analytics guy? Surely he could have hired someone both better, and with less of an "optics" problem, than Haralabos Voulgaris. 

Oh, and to be snarky, is Porzingis a "non-fungible token"?

Another first-round exit for Luka Doncic and the Dallas Mavs; What's needed? New coach? New GM? New owner?

Despite a great effort by Luka Doncic in Game 7, the Dallas Mavericks lost Game 7 to the Clippers and have another first-round playoff exit.

So, what's needed to upgrade?

First, while Kristaps Porzingis is a fine 2A player, would he a be a full No. 2 on an elite team? Probably not. He's NOT "The Unicorn," not with Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis and Nikola Jokić all better 3-ballers, plus the first two being better defenders and the third a much better all-around player. To put it another way, when coach Rick Carlisle (hold on to that) is praising your "floor spacing," that's a tell.

In addition, ESPN points out what many Mavs fans know. His injury history has cut his mobility and made him a liability on D.

Dwight Powell? Solid PF/C combo. Does he have more of a ceiling?

Maxi Kleber? About a No. 8 player. 

Boban? The "Boban strategy" of Carlisle? Not a difference-maker.

Tim Hardaway Jr.? A probable keeper. Dorian Finney-Smith? A mix of skills and grit and a probably keeper. Jalen Brunson? Room to grow and should.

But, no real No. 2.

Can you get a more well rounded No. 3 in the free agent market?

Like a Will Barton? Or Paul Millsap? A full season of Aaron Gordon with the Nuggets means one or both of them are expendable. (Barton has a player option.)

Most other names on this free agent list likely aren't happening. And, that sets aside fans wondering how well Cuban and Donnie Nelson are as free agent whisperers. Plus, that ESPN piece about the Zinger and the Mavs notes that, per the free agents link, it's likely not happening.

So, a trade deal? Too bad Seth Curry for Josh Richardson backfired, as Mavs fans are noting on Twitter. And, nobody's taking back the Zinger, ESPN says. Unfortunately, ALSO per that ESPN piece, he sounds more and more disgruntled about being a clear second fiddle. Knicks fans will once again be laughing up their sleeves.

It also sets aside whether or not Rick Carlisle, 2011 ring aside, is the best man to be leading the Mavs in the future. I think that's a question more Mavs fans should be asking.

At ESPN, Bobby Marks is handing out receipts on Twitter:

Dallas have been to the playoffs 9 times with Rick Carlisle as Head Coach.

They have lost in the 1st. rd. 7 times.

6 first rd. exits in a row since winning a championship in 2011.

— Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42) June 6, 2021

That's why people like me are questioning.

Sadly, the Cuban sandwich has already said "he stays."

 

And, he's wrong. The Hawks, dead in the water a few months ago, replaced Lloyd Pierce with Nate McMillan midseason — and they're not only in the playoffs, they're still playing.

What if Doncic says no? That ESPN story, by McMahon, also notes the Doncic-Carlisle tensions.

Donnie Nelson? Not great as a GM, but, in many ways, we know who the real GM is. And, contra the header, he's not selling.

So, Mavs fans? (I follow them, but not sure I'd call myself a "fan.") You're stuck. You're stuck with a bad free agent market, a depreciating asset in Porzingis, and a coach who doesn't always see eye to eye with his best player. The Lakers will remain better for a year or two still, at least, as will the Clippers. The Nuggets will remain better for a number of years, as will the resurgent Suns. But, as long as Cuban is satisfied with first-round exits, there you go.

I LIKE the NBA's play-in playoffs; shut up, Luka and LeBron

And I hope that Adam Silver, who is NOT "the fool" or whatever it was LeBron James said about who devised this system, keeps the play-in for Nos. 7-10 around another year.

First, per ESPN's Jay Williams (with whom I agree, as I blogged here) that King James is the greatest ever, ahead of Michael Jordan, is behind Jordan in one aspect that Williams noted — and that's being vocal about his health issues. It's been blogged about and laughed at on Twitter ever since his Heat days. But, his recent comments about not being sure he'd ever be 100 percent again? Williams is right. That's an open door to opponents.

What LeBron needed to do is shut up, hope that Anthony Davis' back is unlocked and that Dennis Schröder gets a better COVID brain and they dodge Damian Lillard, Carmelo Anthony, Enes Kanter and the rest of the Portland Trail Blazers.

Likewise, Luka Doncic should also shut up about the play-in, and hope that they stay ahead of the Blazers and possibly the LakeShow as well, and also avoid it. (And that he avoids being T-ed up one more time, which he admits.) 

 

(Update, July 11, 2022: They can shut up permanently now, cuz the league is making the play-in permanent.)

Luka should also hope that the Unicorn, Kristaps Porzingis, gets himself healthy for playoff time.

That said, I would tweak one other thing. Even though the lottery odds have been flattened, there's still a lottery. Exclude the two teams from each conference that finish 7-10 but don't make the playoffs from making the lottery. In other words, ONLY the 11-15 teams in each conference get lottery bingo balls. These other four teams will draft 11-14, period.

Oh, shut up Mark Cuban too.

 

===

 

Red Satan had a piece on suggested tweaks, from a roundtable of part of their hoops staff. Two main suggestions, among the several, stood out. One was to cut it to just 8 vs 9 for the last spot. The other was, whether it was cut or not, to make it 2-of-3 instead of single game.

 

Not totally opposed to either, but not bigly favorable.

 

On the former? I don't think it devalues playoffs that much. (As if NBA and NHL playoffs aren't already devalued anyway.) On the second? Being more of a crapshoot is the whole point; look at MLB's wild card play-in game. Rather, let's make the first round of full playoffs go back to 3-of-5. That would reverse some already existing devaluation.