The post-Veep debate wrap-up piece gets nit-picky, and, even though not written by Ron Fournier, does some McCain tire swinging to boot.
For example, it’s NOT erroneous for Biden to talk about McCain’s planned $4 bil tax break for oil companies just because its part of a plan for larger, more broad-ranging corporate tax breaks.
The only “issue” on Biden’s side where the story is true is that Biden did support Gramm-Leach-Bliley. The story claims that President Clinton has said GLB has kept the financial world meltdown from being even worse.
I don’t know if that’s true, that Clinton said that. If so, it shows both that he’s still a clever liar and that he’s fixated on his “legacy.”
As for Palin, the story doesn’t even mention all her gaffes, errors and lies. The most egregious one that’s missing is her misstatement on Afghanistan, claiming Gen. McKiernan (not McClellan, gaffe No. 2) favors a “surge.”
On the Biden side, it missed his biggest lie of all — that you can be opposed to gay marriage and claim you’re not discriminating against gays — a lie shared by all four candidates of the duopoly.
Beyond that, and contra Josh Marshall at TPM, the REAL tire-swinging it that the MSM is in the tank for the duopoly.
Was McKinney, or Bob Barr for that matter, interviewed after the presidential debate?
Showing posts with label 2008 vice presidential debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 2008 vice presidential debate. Show all posts
October 03, 2008
Post-Veep debate wrap part II with a Green twist
The Green Party would disagree with both duopoly parties on energy; one is moderately more serious than the other about alt energy, but hopelessly compromised on both clean slightly less dirty coal and ethanol. Neither party has offered tax breaks serious enough on alt-energy.
Obviously, the Green Party would massively disagree with both Prez and both Veep candidates on gay rights.
Opposing gay marriage is discrimination. To claim otherwise is a lie.
And, marriage in general is a civil not a church institution. I hope gay marriage rights remain standing in California after Nov. 4, and that Scalia, Roberts and Alito are prepared to put their decisions where their mouths are at when the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution hits the road of “originalism” jurisprudence.
Joe Biden “skated” pretty swiftly on his role in the 2005 bankruptcy bill, and on what that bill really means. Do they discuss THAT around Dover dinner tables, Joe?
Beyond the Green twist, both candidates were wrong on Iran vs. Pakistan. A seriously destabilized Pakistan is worse than a nuclear Iran. Two panders on that, because that’s sucking up to the hardest-core of the Israel is right crowd.
Even more so with Palin on making Jerusalem the capital.
Anyway, back to the Green twist.
With this debate in the bag, and the poll trends, Obama is the new Tom Dewey if he blows this election.
I can shout “Vote Green” even louder and not worry (unfortunately) that it’s hurting his chances one whit.
Obviously, the Green Party would massively disagree with both Prez and both Veep candidates on gay rights.
Opposing gay marriage is discrimination. To claim otherwise is a lie.
And, marriage in general is a civil not a church institution. I hope gay marriage rights remain standing in California after Nov. 4, and that Scalia, Roberts and Alito are prepared to put their decisions where their mouths are at when the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution hits the road of “originalism” jurisprudence.
Joe Biden “skated” pretty swiftly on his role in the 2005 bankruptcy bill, and on what that bill really means. Do they discuss THAT around Dover dinner tables, Joe?
Beyond the Green twist, both candidates were wrong on Iran vs. Pakistan. A seriously destabilized Pakistan is worse than a nuclear Iran. Two panders on that, because that’s sucking up to the hardest-core of the Israel is right crowd.
Even more so with Palin on making Jerusalem the capital.
Anyway, back to the Green twist.
With this debate in the bag, and the poll trends, Obama is the new Tom Dewey if he blows this election.
I can shout “Vote Green” even louder and not worry (unfortunately) that it’s hurting his chances one whit.
October 02, 2008
Post-Veep debate analysis
Otherwise known as David Brooks is from Mars, and we’re from Venus.
I watched PBS. Brooks, in the post-debate wrap-up, first claimed Palin did as well as Biden, then claimed that Biden almost never mentioned Obama vs. how much Palin mentioned McCain.
David, you know that a good Veep candidate is an attack dog, and Biden was busy pinning the
Karen Fitzpatrick agrees that the “folksy” angle of Palin was overdone.
Michael Beschloss cries major foul on Palin for the “white flag of surrender” comment. That said, she may have been trying to provoke Biden; he smartly ignored it.
Beschloss said Biden looked much more human.
Oh, on one specific issue of the debate, Afghanistan:
Oh, per Talking Points Memo, Gen. David McKiernan (not McClellan, we’re not at Antietam Creek), says “Iraq is no Afghanistan. He goes into detail:
I watched PBS. Brooks, in the post-debate wrap-up, first claimed Palin did as well as Biden, then claimed that Biden almost never mentioned Obama vs. how much Palin mentioned McCain.
David, you know that a good Veep candidate is an attack dog, and Biden was busy pinning the
Karen Fitzpatrick agrees that the “folksy” angle of Palin was overdone.
Michael Beschloss cries major foul on Palin for the “white flag of surrender” comment. That said, she may have been trying to provoke Biden; he smartly ignored it.
Beschloss said Biden looked much more human.
Oh, on one specific issue of the debate, Afghanistan:
Oh, per Talking Points Memo, Gen. David McKiernan (not McClellan, we’re not at Antietam Creek), says “Iraq is no Afghanistan. He goes into detail:
During a news conference yesterday, McKiernan described Afghanistan as “a far more complex environment than I ever found in Iraq.” The country's mountainous terrain and rural population, its poverty and illiteracy, its 400 major tribal networks and history of civil war all make for unique challenges, he said.
“The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' ” McKiernan emphasized, saying that what is required instead is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many more years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.
Vice presidential debate blogging
Biden definitely ahead in debate demeanor, engagement with camera, and more (as well as coherence, of course)
My overall grade? Biden B/B-plus. Palin C-minus/D-plus. Her post-debate demeanor makes her sound like she's a little-girl in a big candy store.
Oh, yes, Ifill gets a C. (Retrospectively, Jim Lehrer gets a B, and Tom Brokaw, given some of your recent comments, you are under scrutiny and on the clock right now for the next presidential debate..
8:06 Multiple Palin lies – suspended campaign, bipartisanship, etc.
8:07 Biden uses the Palin opening.
8:08 Oh my fucking god, Palin winked at the camera.
I call Reverse Sexism
8:10 Palin brings out every cliche short of "Hail Mary."
Then "darn right" ? is she running for sheriff? Later, "bless their hearts." Now, she's running for East Texas meemaw or waitress?
8:12 Palin lies again about Obama's tax plans.
8:14 Palin admits she's not going to answer questions straight up. That was coached, after Biden called her out on that.
8:18 Another Palin lie -- that Obama is mandating health care.
What do state lines have to do with health insurance? Close to jumping the shark.
"Redistribution" is her line not McCain's or her debate coaches.
8:20 Biden: "I don't know where to start."
8:21 Biden talks about McCain-Palin "ultimate bridge to nowhere." Wipe that smirk off your face, Palin, you just got punked.
Note: I like Biden going hardcore on her.
8:22 Biden does verbal judo on Ifill question.
8:23 Biden, I think has better camera presence.
8:25 Uhh, Palin? Mad Jack voted FOR the Senate bailout, which has no regulation of Wall Street.
8:26 Biden seems smart in speaking directly to the people, with Twisted Sister's continual smirk.
8:27 Biden glides by question about 2007 bankruptcy bill, with Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13 slide. His first semi-truth of substance. But, he uses that to transition to foreclosure adjustment by judges.
8:30-32 Palin first shark jumper -- twice reverses cause and effect on climate change issues, then claims (cutting through MASSIVE gibberish) that you have to find a solution without finding the problem.
8:34. Palin lies more, indirectly, about the amount of hydrocarbons Alaska has.
8:35 Palin lies again, in not counting "alt energy" at a resource.
8:37 Gay rights -- Biden lies on gay rights. No gay marriage is still discrimination.
8:38 Palin lies much more. Telling a lesbian friend that she shouldn't be able to do everything Palin can is big discrimination. She then throws red meat to the Religious Right.
8:38 Biden panders. And lies. Gay marriage is not a church matter, as state laws decide marriage.
8:45 Both wrong on Iran vs. Pakistan. A seriously destabilized Pakistan is worse than a nuclear Iran. Two panders on that.
8:47 Palin mispronounces "nuclear." Then, goes into a whole mishmash of foreign policy stupidity and lies.
Obama never said he'd meet directly with anybody. As for psychoanalyzing foreign leaders, we could start with George W. Bush.
Then, the bullshit "they hate America" line. No, they hate America occupying Islamic holy places, or giving Zionism a blank check, or other things.
Sidebar on surge not transfering to Afghanistan:
Oh, per Talking Points Memo, Gen. David McKiernan (not McClellan, we’re not at Antietam Creek), says “Iraq is no Afghanistan. He goes into detail:
8:49 Biden almost viscerally disparaging in response.
8:52 Palin lies about Israel. Peace-seeking? Not so much. Embassy in Jerusalem? Blatant pandering. At least she didn't talk about the red heifer needed to bring on the rapture.
8:55 Palin claims "finger-pointing" at BushCo undercuts claim of "politics of change."
Biden: "Past is prologue" in linking McCain to Bush.
8:59 Biden excellent stylistically on nuclear proliferation. Uses repetition for rhetorical value. Then transitions from what McCain is supposedly against to what Obama is for.
9:00 Biden "sigh" during Palin comment.... will that tell?
9:03ff Biden does her best to obscure "nuance" on Iraq. But, this is a risk Obama took in picking Biden. Palin's wrong, but, it was a good shot. And, with her "before it before you were against it" dig, referencing back to Kerry, she may carry some water on that issue.
9:09 Palin winked AGAIN! What next, hiking your skirt from behind the podium at the end at the debate.
9:11 THe "Main Street talk" from Palin is grating, at the least, to me. Don't know how it will play out in general.
9:13 Ifill asks "heartbeat away" question; why didn't she ask about McCain's unreleased medical records?
9:14?? "shout-out"? Trailer trash mom? Barbie mom? A younger Gennifer Flowers with tattoed-on lipliner?
9:16 WTF? Why is Gwen Ifill asking the Cheney vice presidential interpretation question? Gwen, you're getting graded tonight by me, just like both candiates, now.
9:21 Biden types Palin's "Main Street" claim.
9:22 Palin's "maverick" claim is wearing thin here, too.
9:23 Biden PERFECT in holding the "NO MAVERICK" riposte in his holster until near the end of the debate, where Palin has little chance to respond.
My overall grade? Biden B/B-plus. Palin C-minus/D-plus. Her post-debate demeanor makes her sound like she's a little-girl in a big candy store.
Oh, yes, Ifill gets a C. (Retrospectively, Jim Lehrer gets a B, and Tom Brokaw, given some of your recent comments, you are under scrutiny and on the clock right now for the next presidential debate..
8:06 Multiple Palin lies – suspended campaign, bipartisanship, etc.
8:07 Biden uses the Palin opening.
8:08 Oh my fucking god, Palin winked at the camera.
I call Reverse Sexism
8:10 Palin brings out every cliche short of "Hail Mary."
Then "darn right" ? is she running for sheriff? Later, "bless their hearts." Now, she's running for East Texas meemaw or waitress?
8:12 Palin lies again about Obama's tax plans.
8:14 Palin admits she's not going to answer questions straight up. That was coached, after Biden called her out on that.
8:18 Another Palin lie -- that Obama is mandating health care.
What do state lines have to do with health insurance? Close to jumping the shark.
"Redistribution" is her line not McCain's or her debate coaches.
8:20 Biden: "I don't know where to start."
8:21 Biden talks about McCain-Palin "ultimate bridge to nowhere." Wipe that smirk off your face, Palin, you just got punked.
Note: I like Biden going hardcore on her.
8:22 Biden does verbal judo on Ifill question.
8:23 Biden, I think has better camera presence.
8:25 Uhh, Palin? Mad Jack voted FOR the Senate bailout, which has no regulation of Wall Street.
8:26 Biden seems smart in speaking directly to the people, with Twisted Sister's continual smirk.
8:27 Biden glides by question about 2007 bankruptcy bill, with Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13 slide. His first semi-truth of substance. But, he uses that to transition to foreclosure adjustment by judges.
8:30-32 Palin first shark jumper -- twice reverses cause and effect on climate change issues, then claims (cutting through MASSIVE gibberish) that you have to find a solution without finding the problem.
8:34. Palin lies more, indirectly, about the amount of hydrocarbons Alaska has.
8:35 Palin lies again, in not counting "alt energy" at a resource.
8:37 Gay rights -- Biden lies on gay rights. No gay marriage is still discrimination.
8:38 Palin lies much more. Telling a lesbian friend that she shouldn't be able to do everything Palin can is big discrimination. She then throws red meat to the Religious Right.
8:38 Biden panders. And lies. Gay marriage is not a church matter, as state laws decide marriage.
8:45 Both wrong on Iran vs. Pakistan. A seriously destabilized Pakistan is worse than a nuclear Iran. Two panders on that.
8:47 Palin mispronounces "nuclear." Then, goes into a whole mishmash of foreign policy stupidity and lies.
Obama never said he'd meet directly with anybody. As for psychoanalyzing foreign leaders, we could start with George W. Bush.
Then, the bullshit "they hate America" line. No, they hate America occupying Islamic holy places, or giving Zionism a blank check, or other things.
Sidebar on surge not transfering to Afghanistan:
Oh, per Talking Points Memo, Gen. David McKiernan (not McClellan, we’re not at Antietam Creek), says “Iraq is no Afghanistan. He goes into detail:
During a news conference yesterday, McKiernan described Afghanistan as “a far more complex environment than I ever found in Iraq.” The country's mountainous terrain and rural population, its poverty and illiteracy, its 400 major tribal networks and history of civil war all make for unique challenges, he said.
“The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' ” McKiernan emphasized, saying that what is required instead is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many more years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.
8:49 Biden almost viscerally disparaging in response.
8:52 Palin lies about Israel. Peace-seeking? Not so much. Embassy in Jerusalem? Blatant pandering. At least she didn't talk about the red heifer needed to bring on the rapture.
8:55 Palin claims "finger-pointing" at BushCo undercuts claim of "politics of change."
Biden: "Past is prologue" in linking McCain to Bush.
8:59 Biden excellent stylistically on nuclear proliferation. Uses repetition for rhetorical value. Then transitions from what McCain is supposedly against to what Obama is for.
9:00 Biden "sigh" during Palin comment.... will that tell?
9:03ff Biden does her best to obscure "nuance" on Iraq. But, this is a risk Obama took in picking Biden. Palin's wrong, but, it was a good shot. And, with her "before it before you were against it" dig, referencing back to Kerry, she may carry some water on that issue.
9:09 Palin winked AGAIN! What next, hiking your skirt from behind the podium at the end at the debate.
9:11 THe "Main Street talk" from Palin is grating, at the least, to me. Don't know how it will play out in general.
9:13 Ifill asks "heartbeat away" question; why didn't she ask about McCain's unreleased medical records?
9:14?? "shout-out"? Trailer trash mom? Barbie mom? A younger Gennifer Flowers with tattoed-on lipliner?
9:16 WTF? Why is Gwen Ifill asking the Cheney vice presidential interpretation question? Gwen, you're getting graded tonight by me, just like both candiates, now.
9:21 Biden types Palin's "Main Street" claim.
9:22 Palin's "maverick" claim is wearing thin here, too.
9:23 Biden PERFECT in holding the "NO MAVERICK" riposte in his holster until near the end of the debate, where Palin has little chance to respond.
October 01, 2008
Possible fallout from Ifill broken ankle?
Maybe the broken ankle that vice presidential debate moderator Gwen Ifill suffered Monday will make her testier as a debate moderator, which could be bad news for Sarah Palin if she quickly wanders into Bizarro World.
September 21, 2008
Palin to stay on ice for Veep debate
The McCain campaign demanded, and the Obama campaign agreed, to a kid-gloves vice—presidential debate. Here’s your Schmuck Talk Express™ BS of the day:
But, why did B.O. agree to it? The story says his camp was worried about Biden gaffes.
That said, Obama gets a win in putting domestic policy on the last debate. McCain wanted foreign policy last.
This will, or should, more than negate limiting Palin’s exposure. By the time of the third debate, the Paulson-Bernanke-Bush financial bailout will have been thoroughly aired, and, if Passive Pelosi™ and Land-Swap Harry Reid have found any cojones during that time, Obama will have plenty of ways to hammer McCain over the head.
McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense.
But, why did B.O. agree to it? The story says his camp was worried about Biden gaffes.
That said, Obama gets a win in putting domestic policy on the last debate. McCain wanted foreign policy last.
This will, or should, more than negate limiting Palin’s exposure. By the time of the third debate, the Paulson-Bernanke-Bush financial bailout will have been thoroughly aired, and, if Passive Pelosi™ and Land-Swap Harry Reid have found any cojones during that time, Obama will have plenty of ways to hammer McCain over the head.
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