Sorry again, Joe Costello, and again

Joe Costello loses me a lesser bit here, in this piece, where he claims that there is no real difference between a democracy and a republic and that James Madison made it all up.

Yes, republican Rome had the plebian assembly or council, but long before Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus got offed, it was moving toward becoming more and more a glorified debating society more than anything else. Their deaths confirmed that. 

There's other "issues" with the idea of Republican Rome as a democracy.

First, the tribal assemblies, which elected a number of Roman officials at the height of the Republic, per that Wiki page, were "cracked and packed," to use a modern political term I know Costello used, to have the urban poor deliberately under-represented. 

Second, the plebian council, also per Wiki, had no political power until the creation of the plebian tribunes. And, that piece also notes that, in the late Republic, Sulla neutered it officially. As noted above, this had already happened de facto; Sulla just made it de jure.

Wiki's long backgrounder piece on the constitution of the Roman Republic provides yet more info.

No, Joe, it was a republic not a democracy, and per the Latin words "res publica" rather than a Latin borrowing at any time of the concept or the actual word "demos" from the Greek, it was called that for a reason.

Update: Costello doubles down with a Fourth of July piece, one that references an Australian journalist here in the States, who in turn cites the book "Roman Republics." 

The thesis of the book is that there was no single Roman Republic. I have ZERO problem with that idea, and kind of indicated that same idea in my original writing here, with the two Wiki links. John Ruehl's building on that? The last of the five "plebian revolts" occurred only halfway through the history of Republican Rome, so he's writing off half of it to prove a point, and he also ignores that the tribal assemblies were "cracked and packed."

And? Still doesn't prove that a republic is a democracy, Joe. Here in the US, Corey Robin — and other US political scientists — talk about a series of American political systems, with us, per Robin, stuck on a not-fully resolved Sixth System right now. 

And? While that idea, or similar ones from other people, show that the US hasn't had a "single" republic itself, none of that proves the US is or was a democracy, either.

Update: Joe apparently doesn't think the murder of either of the Gracchus brothers was political violence, as he claims that started with Sulla, which was nearly 50 years after Tiberius Gracchus became tribune. For more, see this piece on Wiki, which includes the idea of five different republics, not a bad place to start thought, at least.

You're losing me more and more, Joe.