SocraticGadfly: Cards fans continue to fellate Yadier Molina without facts

May 29, 2024

Cards fans continue to fellate Yadier Molina without facts

Per a post on r/Cardinals that is the stupidest one I've ever seen and that was eventually hauled down by mods, some douchebro from Effingham (moderates NSFW "Effingham hookups" sub) claimed the Cardinals Mount Rushmore should be Musial, Gibson, Pujols and ... Molina.

I, like many others, mentioned Rogers Hornsby. But I then went further. Much further.

You're fricking shitting me that you don't know who Rogers Hornsby is. Per another commenter, Ozzie is No. 5.

I don't think Yadi is even in the top TEN.

We have Ken Boyer at, say No. 6.

Brock at No. 7 even without high WAR.

Dizz, short career and all, at No. 8.

Country Slaughter at No. 9.

Simba at No. 10, just to note IMO he's the best overall catcher in Cards history just to put a last stamp on this.

(I could even try to slip the Old Redhead in at No. 11.)

SMH. Really?

And, at that point, pissed off lots of Cards fans. 

So, I add to it, and blog here. 

Staking out who I am, my flair of Glenn Brummer at r/Cardinals shows I'm a real fan. But, not the worst stereotypes of BFIBers, either.

First? Simba had 45 WAR with the Cards, more than Yadi's total.

Second? Yadi is arguably Jim Sundberg with boatloads of pitch-framing PR. We head to JAWS for catchers. Sundberg is within 1.7 WAR overall, with more than 300 fewer games. He's within 2.5 dWAR. Related? Not only is Rodriguez ahead of Molina, Gary Carter is within 2 dWAR. Bob Boone is the same dWAR as Sundberg. Now, Yadi had a 7-WAR and a 6-WAR year, which Sundberg didn't. OTOH, that was a weird two-year peak. Yadi not only never broke 5 WAR otherwise, he never broke 4 WAR. He never broke 3.5 WAR, even. (Yes, I know WAR is somewhat "non-granular,", or "big-grains granular," but still.)

On D, and setting aside pitch framing, which is not a measurable stat? Sundberg was slightly better at the percentage of baserunners he threw out while trying to steal, though not as much above MLB average as Molina. Yadi was way better on range factor/9, but, OTOH, was below MLB average for his time while Sundberg was above. Yadi was better on zone fielding runs by a solid margin. 

I've also said in the past, in detail, that, at a minimum, I don't think Yadi is a first-ballot HOFer, if at all. On the "magic" /s of pitch framing, I said we don't know if Johnny Bench or Yogi Berra might not be as good, or better. Pitchers and scribes both talked about Yogi making pitchers better when they got to the Yankees.

Third and related? I got even more downvoted in a third-level response comment when I said it was unarguable, not arguable, that Ozzie should be No. 5 on Redbird Rushmore, behind Hornsby but way ahead of Molina.

Update, June 4: Another Best Fans in Baseball brilliante has now posted rhetorical snark about Yadi at r/MLB. I posted a link to this piece. And, in comments to one commenters, I posted oWAR for catchers and said Yadi was Mike Napoli. Or, if you want someone who played more at catcher, he was A.J. Pierzynski. No, really. (At least the OP does a decent pivot to saying Sundberg is underappreciated.)


Of course, these are the same BFIB who laud the addition of Matt Carpenter of the 73 OPS+, or here with one, can't properly count the value of a WAR point, and even by their WAR math, way overestimate the value of Nolan Arenado.

And, when the hell did he start getting called "Marp"? That's about as stupid as #TheLou.

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