tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post5390670307430569705..comments2024-03-13T13:29:33.800-05:00Comments on SocraticGadfly: Climate change vs. climate justice, or John Rawls meets realityUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-60542638762117080052014-03-27T06:28:47.427-05:002014-03-27T06:28:47.427-05:00I'll have to admit I'm a bit of a ethical ...I'll have to admit I'm a bit of a ethical relativist and think there are non-moral reasons not to do things like murder or rape.<br /><br /> But still maintain they aren't objectively ethically wrong in the way it is usually framed. <br /><br />I have a game theory like formation called procedural equality where most people accept that to play the game of normative morality the agents expect to be treated as if they have basically equal worth within the game. In other words fairly and non arbitrarily. <br /><br />If one accepts the Golden and Silver rules and the sort of procedural equality that goes with it, to gain the myriad benefits of the game, it is 'wrong' by the rules you have accepted to then rape or murder.<br /><br />OFC if you don't accept the rules that contractually link is and ought, you are just left with the brute facts and the repercussions from those who have accepted the above rules. <br /><br />Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540668068672572303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-14326060130892819022014-03-25T20:13:03.839-05:002014-03-25T20:13:03.839-05:00On a set of core values, i'm a strong semi-abs...On a set of core values, i'm a strong semi-absolutist.<br /><br />To unpack, let's take murder.<br /><br />That's a universal among non-sociopaths. But, where does murder become manslaughter? <br />There can be some cultural difference on what constitutes premeditation, or how much weight we should give to premeditation or lack thereof as an issue.<br /><br />On an issue like, say usury, I think such a thing exists, but still understand the issue of credit risks and other issues.<br /><br />On some issues, they are "adiaphora," to use the old religious term. Per the "Silver Rule," if nobody is being harmed, and the matter is ultimately one of taste, even if society has mislabeled it as one of ethics, do what you want.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-57985424044465543572014-03-25T19:19:42.190-05:002014-03-25T19:19:42.190-05:00Couldn't agree more.
Regarding 'is' ...Couldn't agree more. <br /><br />Regarding 'is' and 'ought' where do you stand on ethical relativism?Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540668068672572303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-37821433842937479212014-03-25T18:36:13.104-05:002014-03-25T18:36:13.104-05:00Agreed. I think all of us have a degree of a utili...Agreed. I think all of us have a degree of a utilitarian streak in us as part of our evolutionary nature. But, per Hume's "is" not "ought," it doesn't have to be our lodestone in ethics, or philosophy in general. However, as part of a broader, more eclectic approach to ethics, or issues of philosophy in general, utilitarianism can be a good tool, I think, when appropriately used.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-82051444168057735592014-03-25T18:30:09.327-05:002014-03-25T18:30:09.327-05:00Nice points.
I never had the opportunity to go in...Nice points.<br /><br />I never had the opportunity to go into the more sophisticated formulations of utilitarianism but did have problems of the usual kind. As a general principle or goal I didn't mind it if incorporated within other ethical guidelines. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540668068672572303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-56362547482235505762014-03-25T08:22:07.881-05:002014-03-25T08:22:07.881-05:00I think there probably is a reasonable parallel th...I think there probably is a reasonable parallel there. Reconciliation is at least somewhat dependent on trust; and trust and justice don't always go together. Then, if a second generation finds that revelation, and justice, were sacrificed for order, then, yes, the lid could come off.<br /><br />===<br /><br />In my writing about Rawls in general, I mention Kaufmann and his book on the issues of "justice" and "fairness." Basically, Kaufmann uses Nietzsche-type dialectical reasoning to show that one person's fairness could be another's tyranny. This is true of groups as well as individuals.<br /><br />===<br /><br />Some of this, as I note in other blog posts about Rawls, relates to general problems with utilitarian, or utilitarian-like, philosophies. Because we are temporally as well as spacially finite beings, it's simply impossible for us to have an ethical "view from nowhere."Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-86292731193366533562014-03-25T08:06:23.074-05:002014-03-25T08:06:23.074-05:00I wonder if it is similar to the truth and reconci...I wonder if it is similar to the truth and reconciliation goals in SA. You can have order but not justice. Personally I don't thin k it will last and there will be hell to pay when things fail economically because there was no justice post Apartheid Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540668068672572303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-32195180328714028602014-03-25T08:02:19.236-05:002014-03-25T08:02:19.236-05:00BTW I've only read a few articles on Climate J...BTW I've only read a few articles on Climate Justice but I cannot agree with Posner's argument. <br /><br />It's is very similar to colonial reparations. As an Australian I didn't commit the genocide and theft of land done by earlier Australian's but my standard of living - even on the lower wage end- is still directly linked to that earlier injustice.<br /><br /> David Boonin also talked about slave reparations and I think he still was for them even if no one today is directly linked or that many blacks in who pay taxes have done well or would be in effect paying their own reparations. <br /><br />Regarding the Philippines I've been there many times and since a large percentage in living in poverty and will be greatly affected by climate change its hard for me to see any argument saying they have benefited from industrialization and don't deserve the reparations.<br /><br />& even if many Americans or Europeans are now poor I think I would be looking current capacity to pay linked to the fruits of past and current economic activity when looking at any reparations. <br /><br />In other words I have no problem with a historical approach and progressive reparations payments. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540668068672572303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-57253687889233073312014-03-25T08:00:45.386-05:002014-03-25T08:00:45.386-05:00On Rawls in general (I've done a couple of oth...On Rawls in general (I've done a couple of other blog posts about him and you can use the search box), I agree with his political and political science ideas in general, but think he's all wet on the philosophy he claims that will support them. That's particularly true of his idea of "justice."<br /><br />How that applies to Posner is that I agree somewhat we can's have both climate justice or a good climate treaty, but that Posner himself and his particular argument for that don't have much to stand on.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13075757287807731373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7532871.post-37261202095327173582014-03-25T07:35:56.962-05:002014-03-25T07:35:56.962-05:00Could you expand/clarify on this I'm a bit slo...Could you expand/clarify on this I'm a bit slow on what you are trying to say.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00540668068672572303noreply@blogger.com